[Doc-Z]

I got home and tried out the adapter. At first, it didn't want to plug in. Being a new part, the pin recievers were VERY tight. I couldn't get ithe connector to connect. I needed to push something into the pin recievers to help open them up. Aa larger paper clip worked beautifully. With a slight bit of coersion, it clicked on. I reconected the battery and tried to start the car. When I turned the key to "ON", the doors automatically locked - whcih is was NOT doing since I replaced the motor. When I tried to start it, I can hear the starter turning / spinning, but it isn't engauging the flex plate.

I removed the starter and checked it, using the battery from the trunk. The bendix spun out and it tested O.K. outside of the car. I then measured the distances to the end of the flex plate and the outer portion, where the starter bolts on. I was hoping I didn't install the flex plate backwards!!!

I was REALLY worried there, but the flex plate was installed right. I was thinking there may be an offset or something. This reassured me, thie was NOT the case. According to the caliper, I have a little extra room for the bendix to spin out, which will go just beyond the flex plate, to the built in stopper. The result is, the starter should still be O.K.. I went and had the battery tested and it check out O.K.!

Hmm...so why is the car STILL not starting??? 🤔


Anyone who is still reading this...sometimes you need to walk away from a project for a little while. I was frustrated as heck yesterday and all weekend. I knew I wasn't looking at this properly. I mean, I had JUST goten the new adapter ($40) bought a new throttle body ($400) and expected that to be the end all...and it wasn't. I checked all the grounds again, pulled the starter 2X and had been up, down and all around that car multiple times all weekend....and it STILL wasn't starting!!! All I was thinkng is, I've been working on this car for 3 MONTHS and all I get it a starter motor going WHEEEEE!!!!

This morning I was at work and thinking about this. I did some Google searches and was reading on multiple forums, where people were having these same issues (CopenWorld.net, Camaros.net, GrassRootsMotorsports.com, etc.) They were ALL saying the same things...

1). Bad Starter
2). Bad Solenoid
3). Bad Starter...
4). The Solenoid is bad.
5). Blah, Blah, Blah

...and then there was the "Ah HA!" moment, where I hope I figured this out...

On CopenWorld, a guy posted that his battery tested O.K., but it didn't have enough power to turn the starter FAST enough to engauge the flywheel (actually, the guy wrote "flywhhel"...but THAT is what drew my attention to his post!). I recalled the woman at O'Reily's said to me, the battery is 'PROBABLY O.K.....probbaly....pro-ba-ba-billy??? That was when I went in my wallet and got out the printout from the battery tester.

Last quarter of life, bit good in extreme condition....but this was AFTER it needed to be charged.

On the Cobalts / G5's, there is NOT a direct line from the battery to the starter. Instead, the battery cable runs from the battery, through a maze of 💩 around it, until it finally exits the trunk and ends at the jumper post on tuse panel. Then there is another cable that attaches from this point and runs SEPERATELY to the starter. When you have a longer cable, you lose some power / current / amperage because of resistance, due to the length of the wirepower at every connection for the same reasons. Even though, I cleaned all the connectons and made new grounds...it wasn't enough to get the car to start.



- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

On a side note, my custom overlay finally came in the mail. 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️ As with EVERYTHING else that has been going on with this car lately, the overlay is WRONG! What I ordered was....

....AND WHAT THEY SENT ME:

This isn't the end of the world, but I wanted a specific look. Having all red doesn't look as good to me as the transitioning of the max RPM from yellow to red. I did contact the company about 3 minutes ago. We'll see what happens. Thus far, I have had no issues with them and I expect they will fix it without any hassle. My only issue is, I'm supposed to have this car done and running for the weekend of October 2nd (Pontiac Adventures weekend in the Wisconsin Dells) :-(

I doubt I'll have the overlay fixed and sent for that.



......one thing at a time I guess......

 

[Doc-Z]

...I got a reply right away from Black Cat Customs. They are making me the correct overlay and will be sending it out in about another day. I couldn't be happier with them.

 

[Doc-Z]

Y'all know the saying, "When it rains, it pours"....well, this is the ongoing problem with my "5"...

..

3 months ago, I figured I would have had this car done and drivable again within a month...2 if it took a LONG time. I always have some sort of project to work on for one of my cars, so it keeps me busy on my 'free time'. I figured I would have had time to get those finished and then some...but, it seems where something could go wrong, 👉 has...


Here's a list of setbacks I've had on this car. It all startered in June when I:

1). Performed an oil change
----- blue smoke started pouring out of the exhaust

2). Bad piston ring(s), but no available parts could be had.
----- Ended up buying a used 65k mile motor.

3). Newer motor was set to be delivered on 6/23 (and I took off of work this day)
----- the motor was delivered 3 days late!

4). Removed the old engine and ordered new parts for the new motor.
----- These parts took weeks to get delivered

*** While waiting, I managed to find performance cams w/ new lash adjusters / springs, LSJ T/B and a ZZP shorty header

5). I tried to replace the valve springs myself after watching a Youtube vid.
----- The trick they used in the vid didn't work on my engine.
----- I screwed myself and pushed the valve into the cylinder.

*** I had to pull the head and get the valve springs installed professionally. While at it, he cleaned out the exhaust ports.🤘

6). while reinstalling the head, I forgot to install 4 head bolts in the area of the timing / balance shaft chains
----- I made a tool to fit between the cam sprocket and head wall totorque down the hex bolt.

While the car was all apart, I began to inspect and clean the subframe and all the components under and around the car.

7). I Upon inspection of the steering rack, I saw there was a hole in one of the boots
----- purchased and replaced the power steering rack.

6). While cleaning the subframe, I saw the front sway bar (FE3 - 22mm) was cracked
----- I had to replace it with a FE5 (24mm), because I couldn't find a FE3 sway.

7). The sway bar brackets were rusted badly and NOS parts are not available.
----- I spent several hours making new ones from 1.5" iron bar.

8). After reinstalling the motor, there was a large crack in the aluminum oil pan
----- had a friend (certified welder) fix it.

9). Painted the fixed oil pan silver and reinstalled it.
----- next morning oil leaked out of a hairline crack on the other side.

10). Removed the trans pan to service / replace the old trans fluid.
----- someone (NOT ME) stepped on the pan and bent it. Would not install correctly and got a new trans pan from RockAuto.

11). Tried to start the car, but it wouldn't turn over. There were all kinds of codes.
----- I had to get a different Throttle body adapter (8 pin to 8 pin - NOT 8 pi to 6 pin) from ZZP for the LSJ Throttle Body upgrade.

12). Car still wouldn't start. Key turns, nothing happens...except NOW the key was stuck in the ignition.
----- Figured how to release the key, had to make a ground to the TCM.

...and this is where I'm at NOW. The starter finally spins, but wont engage with the flexplate. I was hoping it was either a bad battery, battery cable of something along those lines. I used a car jumper connected to the battery (trunk), on the jump points under the hood and with the jumper hooked directly to the starter to see if the starter would engage. It wil not. It spins and when I switch the key to off, I hear a thump-thump from the exhaust.

I called a bunch of people who areASE certified mechanics that I know. They are all saying it's a backwards flexplate. To prove I'm not an idiot, this is my view through the starter hole.

...and this is an eBay flex plate (noting in both pictures 👆 and 👇 where an outer ring is rivoted to one side of the plate). That ring faces towards the engine / away from the trans. This means I'm NOT an idiot and I did get it right.

I've been trying to figure this out and nothng seems to make any sense. I've been doing cross refrencing and found the flexplate is the same part number on all the 2.0, 2.2 and 2.4 litre ecotec motors. In fact, there are many parts that are used in all the Ecotec i-4's. I did find there are 3 (THREE) different starter part numbers. I took my starter to O'Reilys and compared mine to the other two versions. Outwardly, they looked exactly the same in all dimensions. The bendix is the same diameter on all 3 versions (I used a calipers to measure). There is one difference I did notice on a later version of the starter. On this one there is a plastic connector instead of the bare wire with the ring end, that you have to bolt onto the starter with an 8mm bolt. Otherwise, that it...they are the same.

I began to go through everything again; checking all the grounds several times and cleaing and re-cleaning them. The starter issue didn't change. When I turn the key on, you can hear the starter spinning, but the car doesn't turn over. It sounds like the bendix is not engaging with the flex plate. The only time you hear anything from the engine, is when you go to turn off the key. There is a little thum-thump coming out of the exhaust. This is the only time you hear anything, but it doesn't happen all of the time.

When you look inside of the starter, the backing of the bendix gear has some minimal wear on that part only. There are no(zero) markings on the gearing of the bendix. That part of it is unmarred and perfectly clean.

On a whim, I tried to measure the area inside of the starter hole. Using some masking tape, I secured it to the back edge of the flexplate and to the furthest edge of the starter hole. The measurement I got from there (using a calipers) was 1.880 inches. I then measured the distance from the outer edge of the bendix gear teeth to the end of the starter, that secures it, into the hole. That measurement is rougly 1.750 inches. At this point, I think there is a problem in the engine block, where the starter isn't or wont touch the flexplate by just over 1/10th of an inch.

Of course, this is only speculation at this point. I'm going to have to verify this and to do so, I had to buy an old, junky starter. Once it arrives, I'll dismantle and test my theory. For posterity, I will be taking pictures and maybe recoring a vid on this.

I'm 48 and have been wrenching on cars for close to 30 years. In that time, I have only heard of a manufacturing defect like this 👉 ONCE. It was a one of those, friend of a friend deals too. I literally, only heard about this a year or two ago. You know, back when you could order a part and it would be delivered within a day...

So, this guy had a '77 Ford F100 pickup. The starter wasn't engaging the flywheel and he was replacing all kinds of brand new parts. After getting a new flywheel, starter and bellhousing, it turned out the hole for the starter was 1/4 inch off. He had to modify the starter head by grinding off one side of the built in shim. Once he did that, he made a seperate shim to support the starter in the hole from the other side. He also had to move the starter bolt holes and fabricate a bunch of stuff to get this all to work togther. Mind you, this wasn't all aftermarket stuff, where you had to use Mickey Mouse trickery to mesh all these different things togther. These were all Ford replacement or 'factory' parts.

If this happens to be the case on this car, it is EXCEEDINGLY rare. I feel I have to figure this out (and I will have to document it).

 

[Doc-Z]

In the meantime, I've been finishing up a few other projects on the car. For you viewing pleasure:


BLACK CAT custom gauge overlay:

Modified ZZP A-Pillar triple gauge pod that I modded. This is SO CLOSE to being finished. I just have a littlebit more to go.
(there is some masking tape covering / protecting the carbon fiber from overspray).

 

[Doc-Z]

After working on the car for around 20 hours this weekend, at 11:49 pm last night I finally got the car to start!!!

IT'S RUNNING!!!

The Skunkworks cams were JUNK and the lifters he included in the package were NOT hydraulic. The valves weren't closing and I was not getting any compression in any of the cylinders. I had to put the OEM cam's back in, reset the timing and balance shaft chains. The Woodruf key was bent and it took a while to remove the pulley and gears off the crankshaft.

....BUT...

It starts and runs! I will be posting up pics and a vid eventually.

 

[toolman]

Nice work! You'll really like the FE5 front sway bar. Now you can get a rear sway bar to compliment the front, and you'll notice a night/day difference when cornering.

A couple of things I noticed while reading through this:
-You could have just drilled the second hole for the 2-hole brackets. That's what the Cobalt guys do when upgrading to the FE5 sway bar.
-Most people rotate the coolant crossover on the back side of the engine to get a little more clearance from the exhaust header. I'm not sure if you did that, but you can rotate it by hand if the o-rings are soft enough yet. Maybe you have enough clearance already.
-The earlier pictures of the engine showed that you had the oil cap extension still in place. I didn't see that part on the new engine. Did you finally pull it off? The oil cap will screw directly into the valve cover.

I like how you painted the engine and brakes. Good job!

 

[Doc-Z]

Thanks for the read!!!

-You could have just drilled the second hole for the 2-hole brackets. That's what the Cobalt guys do when upgrading to the FE5 sway bar.

I thought about that but there was already a hole cut in the subframe for the tab on the bracket. Your way would have been a lot easier

-Most people rotate the coolant crossover on the back side of the engine to get a little more clearance from the exhaust header. I'm not sure if you did that, but you can rotate it by hand if the o-rings are soft enough yet. Maybe you have enough clearance already.

I didn't need to do this. There was/is enough clearance.

-The earlier pictures of the engine showed that you had the oil cap extension still in place. I didn't see that part on the new engine. Did you finally pull it off? The oil cap will screw directly into the valve cover.

I did remove the extension from the oil fiull cap, but I'm not quite finished with the coil cover. I'm skinning that with aluminized carbon fiber. It's not the "chrome" look I wanted, but it does have a cool look / effect.



This coming weekend is the Pontiac Adventures weekend at the Chula Vista Resort in the Wisconsin Dells. I HAVE to have this thing done for that!!! I would have taken pics and posted more things over the weekend, but I've been killing myself trying to get the thing up, running and roadworthy again. I still have a BUNCH of odds and ends to finish!

 

[Doc-Z]

At least it WAS running....

I went to check / clear the codes, when something went clunk, and then rattle-rattle-clang-rattle.

I pulled the side cover and....

The exhaust balance shaft sprocket unscrewed and backed itself out. This was something I put in months ago and I KNOW I torqued it down, using some blue Loctite. Luckily, I still had the old (65k mile) part from before. This time I, used red Loctite and I EFFEN sent it!!!!



I had to order another set of cam sprocket bolts. To get the chains to line up again, I had to pull the exhaust cam sprocket off. These are TTY (Torque to Yeild) bolts, and are 1 time use only. After a few hours of work, I finally got everything bolted back up and put ack together. It was almost 2 am when I finished, but I wanted to double check everything and snap a few pics of the alignment markings with their color coded links.

NOTE: I had to mix the sprockets, so some are the "new and improved" and some are the OEM versions.

 

[Doc-Z]

After finally getting those chains back on and lined up, I then:

1). had to remove and clean the oil pan
2). pull the oil filter (there were all kinds of littlke metal shards in it)
3). used brake cleaner to blast out any remaining shards the the duct from the oil pump to the filter
- (not much came out)
4). cleaned off the silicone from the engine to oil pan surfaces
5). Reinstalled the side cover and put everything back together.

I was up until 2:30 am last night and had to be up at 7 to get ready for work.

The car is now stuck in Limp Mode. I'm getting a P0223 code (High Voltage from the Throttle / Pedal position Sensor to the PCM is too high).

I spoke to Ryan at ZZPerformance and when I told him that code, he told me everything that was going on with my car. He said the gas pedal is the culprit and throwing the car into limp mode. I trust what he said, because it was like he was in the garage with me, when I was telling him the symptoms. I have the pedal already, it just got SO late. I'll be spending tonight getting tat pedal in.

_


On a side note, I also got some goodies put in the car. I have been wanting to put these in, but haven't had time, with the motor being all fookered and such. I really need to get a shot looking into the car, form the outside, so you can get a feel for how CRaZy this gauge pod looks. From the drivers perspective, they ar all lined up and are facing right at you. Outwardly, they look like they are in the way and sticking out. Of course, I didn't notice it until I was SUPER tired and just wanted to sleep. Anyway, I hope you all enjoy my Carbon Fiber skinned parts.

(I used Composite Envisions "Copper Reflections" carbon fiber. It's a 2X2 weave, that has a copper filiment in it. In addition to this color, there is also: blue, purple, red, gold, green, silver. I have some of the purple, which I got to do some parts for my GF's Kia. This stuff is GORGEOUS in the light and you only see the color in the right light. I highly recommend this company for their wide array of CF weaves, colored fiberglass and options for Carbon Fiber, Kevlar and Fiberglass cloth).

 

[toolman]

The gauges turned out great! Your floor mat looks a little out of place with the orange border now.

I hope you make it to the dells! I live a few hours north by Eau Claire.

 

[Doc-Z]

The gauges turned out great! Your floor mat looks a little out of place with the orange border now.

I hope you make it to the dells! I live a few hours north by Eau Claire.

Yeah, the orange border isn't quite right. I might see if I can have them stained or darkened a little.


I sorta gave up on the little car on Wednesday night. I got all the codes clearedexcept a P0223 (gas pedal actuator voltage to PCM high. I was told this is what was causing my DIC to say "Service Traction" and ENG PWR Reduced". I replaced the gas pedal and the car went NUTS! It started, ran for a second and jumped to 4K rpm and shut off by itself right away. I tried to start it again and the car ran like 💩, spitting and sputtering. It shut off and the DIC read, "Engine Disabled".

I disconnected the battery and the car hasn't started since. On Thursday, I dragged it onto a trailer and went to work with the car in tow. On my lunch break, I dropped it off at a shop.

 

[toolman]

Dang. I hope the shop can figure it out. I love the G6 GTP wheels.

 

[Doc-Z]

Dang. I hope the shop can figure it out. I love the G6 GTP wheels.

After one week at the shop, the guy managed to get the car started. It has something like..10 codes now (?!?). From something to do with fuel pressure, to the brake booster and now an intake manifold pressure code. The P0223 code is still rearing it's ugly head. I brought in some of the parts I replaced (gas pedal, Throttle Body, etc.) to see if any of that triggers a thought or something. Currently, the car will start and run at a very high idle and then run at 3K rpm for around 25 to 30 seconds and shut off. When you try to re-start the car, t will not even crank over. If you wait a few minutes, you can start it up again, but it goes through this same scenario...starts, races at 3K rpm and shuts off.

 

[Doc-Z]

Well..it has been 3 weeks since I dropped the car off at this shop in McHenry, IL. I wanted to stop by last week Friday (would have been the second time I did so), but my father was in the hospial. While I was at work, he passed away. I didn't get to say goodbye....😥

It has NOT been a very good week.

 

[toolman]

I'm so sorry to hear that. I'm sorry for your loss.

 

[Doc-Z]

....4 more weeks (to the day ironically) and the car still isn't done.

I'm so sorry to hear that. I'm sorry for your loss.

Thanks Toolman! It's kind of weird not having him around anymore.

He had three classic cars and a truck (daily), which need to get sold...not to mention all the parts he accumulated over the decades of working on cars.

 

[Doc-Z]

Thanks to ZZPerformance's "Black Friday" sale, my little car will have a little more pep!
Any guesses what's in the box???

🎄🎅🎄🎅🎄🎅🎄🎅🎄

 

[Sir 500mph]

Could it possibly be those LE5 cams?

 

[Doc-Z]

Could it possibly be those LE5 cams?

MAYBE!!!!
(and by maybe I mean YES)

 

[Doc-Z]

11 weeks at the shop and the car is still having some issues. The mechanic tried to swap in the old gas pedal and it didn't change anything. The codes didn't change, nor did the way the car was running. He also tested the LSJ T/B. It was reading at 31.73* open while the key is ON, but the car is NOT RUNNING. Upon calling ZZPerformance, Ryan looked up the numbers for the throttle posirtion sensor, while the car is ON, but NOT RUNNING. The "normal" numbers are supposed to tbe between 25* and 27* is normal...so 31* isn't too far off. Also, we weren't sure if the vacuum tube from the vapor canister, should connect to the manifold, or to the port on the LSJ Throttle body. Ryan said I was supposed to block off the T/B vacuum port tube and reconnect the vapor canister to the manifold, using the stock tube (which is how I had the car setup, BUT this pic doesn't have the cap n the T/B Vacuum tube).


RED ARROW / CIRCLE - points to the T/B Vacuum tube connector
YELLOW CIRCLE - Vacuum tube to Vapor Canister
👇👇👇👇

👆👆👆👆
Above is the Vapor Canister Purge Solenoid is circled in red (GM Part # 12597567 - which replaces GM Part # 12597341)


At this point, the car will start and run at 4K RPM for 20 to 30 seconds and shut off. Upon looking at the CEL cods they are:

• P0122 - Throttle Position Sensor / Switch A circuit LOW to Input
• P0223 - Throttle Position Sensor / Swicth B Circuit HI to Input
• P2119 - Throttle Closed Position Performance
• P2122 - Accelerator Pedal Position Sensor 1 Curcuit Low Voltage
• P2123 - Accelerator Pedal Position Sensor 1 Curcuit High Voltage
• P2127 - Accelerator Pedal Position Sensor 2 Curcuit Low Voltage
• P2135 - Throttle Position Sensor 1-2 Correlation

(EDIT: The points in the 👆 above list weren't working right)

The mechanic tapped on the side of the throttle body, where all the circuitry is enclosed and the car ran better for a few moments. At this point, we think there may be a short in the Throttle Body (which was purchased on September 12th and bolted directly onto the car. The secondary Throttle Body I have for this car, I got second hand. I did remove the round throttle plate from the inside and ported that one (getting about 2% increase in the inside diameter).

You aren't supposed to mess with the "butterfly" or throttle plate inside of the throttle bodies...so it isn't certain this "fix" will work either.