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Discussion Starter #1
I've been toying with upgrading my exhaust for a while now. I planned initially to replace the header, dp, and catback with all aftermarket. The past few days I've changed my mind and I'm simply going to replace my manifold and dp with that of the SS/SC...and then add a newcatback after that, of which I'm still undecided. I may just add a performance muffler since I'd just be buying the same size piping as stock if I were to go aftermarket.

The reason I've decided to go with the LSJ stock parts is because I wasn't aware just how restrictive the exhaust system on the 2.2 is. Check out this shot comparing the stock 2.2 manifold and the 2.0 manifold.

* Credit for the photo to Stl06LS on css.net.

The second reason is price. I can get the LSJ manifold and DP for around $100 plus shiping. Aftermarket would cost me $400+.

Thought? Opinions?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
You may have well said that in german....I am what you might call a noob when it comes to performance mods....
 

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There are certain parts of the header that are honed the way they are because of specific back pressure requirements for the engine - leaving the collects the same will allow air flow to enter the same way as it would stock - but flow through more freely through the rest of the header.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
So having it honed would be a good thing to do? Good thing or required thing? Is it expensive to have done?
 

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It can be expensive - to have it done right anyways. But most people stick with aftermarket headers and have them honed according to the engine specs and what it can handle.

Also, on a side note - when replacing stock parts on your car with other stock parts from a different model car with a different engine its not always recommended. You need to consider back pressure, inlets, outlets, etc. They may look like they will bolt on the same - but you could end up throwing CEL's if not done correctly.

I personally don't recommend using a 2.0L header on a 2.2L - unless you plan on doing internals, catback, downpipe, injector swap & tuning. Without proper tuning and more airflow you will probably max out your injector duty cycle.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
farfrmnormal said:
It can be expensive - to have it done right anyways. But most people stick with aftermarket headers and have them honed according to the engine specs and what it can handle.
Aftermarket is too overpriced when I can get the same marginal gains this way.

farfrmnormal said:
Also, on a side note - when replacing stock parts on your car with other stock parts from a different model car with a different engine its not always recommended. You need to consider back pressure, inlets, outlets, etc. They may look like they will bolt on the same - but you could end up throwing CEL's if not done correctly.
From the reading I've been doing on css.net, these parts are a perfect match with each other.

farfrmnormal said:
I personally don't recommend using a 2.0L header on a 2.2L - unless you plan on doing internals, catback, downpipe, injector swap & tuning. Without proper tuning and more airflow you will probably max out your injector duty cycle.
downpipe is being replaced with the stock LSJ dp. I already mentioned about the catback...undecided for now.

Now..internals...how would they be affected by more exhaust being able to get out of the engine more efficiently?

Injectors/tuning. Again, how would they be affected by this mod? Maybe it's clear as day to see, but I'm missing how it could be affected....wouldn't I need a drastic increase in HP to justify making changes to the injectors?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Also, there is no tuning available for the 2.2
 

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farfrmnormal said:
It can be expensive - to have it done right anyways. But most people stick with aftermarket headers and have them honed according to the engine specs and what it can handle.

Also, on a side note - when replacing stock parts on your car with other stock parts from a different model car with a different engine its not always recommended. You need to consider back pressure, inlets, outlets, etc. They may look like they will bolt on the same - but you could end up throwing CEL's if not done correctly.

I personally don't recommend using a 2.0L header on a 2.2L - unless you plan on doing internals, catback, downpipe, injector swap & tuning. Without proper tuning and more airflow you will probably max out your injector duty cycle.
:iluvu: i think i just maxed out my injector duty cycle
 

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Parts will probably match up w/o any problems. I know it sounds absolutely ridiculous, but it's true-engines need a certain amount of backpressure to operate efficently. If everything flows too "freely", the car will not actually run correctly. You have a good vision with this, just get with somebody that knows a lot about exhausts, so you don't waste time and money. Whatever you do, please don't run a piece of straight pipe with a fartcan at the end!!! :shock:
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I can see the back-pressure being a concern...I'mma throw this topic up on css.net and see if I get any bites over there
 

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farfrmnormal said:
Also, on a side note - when replacing stock parts on your car with other stock parts from a different model car with a different engine its not always recommended. You need to consider back pressure, inlets, outlets, etc. They may look like they will bolt on the same - but you could end up throwing CEL's if not done correctly.

I personally don't recommend using a 2.0L header on a 2.2L - unless you plan on doing internals, catback, downpipe, injector swap & tuning. Without proper tuning and more airflow you will probably max out your injector duty cycle.
Do you really think someone would put a stock manifold on if they where going as far as replacing the internals?

Putting on a free flowing exhaust system won't effect the IDC much the only thing its doing is freeing up power be making it easier for the engine to get rid of the exhaust. Such things as intakes, intake manifolds, throttle body’s, ported heads, and cams will definitely effect the IDC as mods like that increase the volume of air that can be taken in be the engine on each stroke, the MAF detects the increase in volume thus effects the ICD by increasing fuel delivery to maintain the desired A/F ratio.
 

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farfrmnormal said:
There are certain parts of the header that are honed the way they are because of specific back pressure requirements for the engine - leaving the collects the same will allow air flow to enter the same way as it would stock - but flow through more freely through the rest of the header.
also leaving the collectors the same you will not lose any low end torque.
 

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blackriderg6 said:
farfrmnormal said:
Also, on a side note - when replacing stock parts on your car with other stock parts from a different model car with a different engine its not always recommended. You need to consider back pressure, inlets, outlets, etc. They may look like they will bolt on the same - but you could end up throwing CEL's if not done correctly.

I personally don't recommend using a 2.0L header on a 2.2L - unless you plan on doing internals, catback, downpipe, injector swap & tuning. Without proper tuning and more airflow you will probably max out your injector duty cycle.
Do you really think someone would put a stock manifold on if they where going as far as replacing the internals?

Putting on a free flowing exhaust system won't effect the IDC much the only thing its doing is freeing up power be making it easier for the engine to get rid of the exhaust. Such things as intakes, intake manifolds, throttle body’s, ported heads, and cams will definitely effect the IDC as mods like that increase the volume of air that can be taken in be the engine on each stroke, the MAF detects the increase in volume thus effects the ICD by increasing fuel delivery to maintain the desired A/F ratio.
Most people who are looking to add HP don't put on stock parts from other vehicles.

When I made my comment about installing a new header - I should have re-iterated that my comment was not specifically directed at the fact that its a stock manifold. My comment was made in that USUALLY people who are replacing the manifold want more from their cars and replace with an aftermarket manifold. That is what my recommendation was based on. Also stating that usually people who put this stuff on want to go for more in the future - which most likely is not going to happen with a stock manifold.

As for the tuning - I know there isn't any out for the 2.2L, hence me saying its not recommended to put a bigger manifold on the car. Putting just the catback system on it will be suffice.

I read the post on css.net - When I said internals etc I meant that most who do the manifold swap do internals in the future - not that it is necessary to have them done before the swap. As for injectors - to each their own - I myself have read into this and know of many who have required tuning (I know its a 2.4L but we use the same injectors). Perhaps its the air flow in the 2.2L that brings the duty cycle down? I don't know....

I just don't know why one would choose this option when you aren't gaining a whole lot from it.
 

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I agree that normally someone wouldn't want the stock parts from another car...but in this case, the LSJ header is far less restrictive then that of the L61. As shown in the picture. Exhaust getting out of the engine easier seems to me that it would show a marginal performance increase.

I also agree that USUALLY people will go aftermarket. But what I'm considering at the moment is that there is no tuning available for the 2.2, and god only knows when there would be, I don't plan on doing anything major to the engine until tuning is available. I'm figuring until that time this will be a nice little upgrade to do. It's gonna cost me $130 to my door for the header/dp combo with 3k miles on them. Can't beat that! Turbo is going to be my likely direction for the car...but as I have an automatic trans, I need to wait for bull blown tuning to be available for it to work.

Ok..I don't agree that putting a catback on for now will suffice. Why wouldn't I want to use the LSJ header in conjuction with it when it clearly allows the engine to exhaust easier? Other then the backpressure issue which I've read about for 3 hours today, I see no other reason.

All in all I won't gain a whole lot I'm sure. It gives a deeper sound then the L61 header. But my main justification on this is seeing the outlet on the 2 headers. Aftermarket catback or not, I'm confident the LSJ header will be more beneficial.
 

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It makes me wonder why GM would have two different exhaust manifolds that look to be very similar on the outside, while having one be less restrictive on the inside. Does it really cost much more to produce the LSJ manifold as opposed to the L61 manifold? Or is there a reason that the L61 needs an exhaust manifold that is more restrictive than the LSJ. It seems to me that the L61 exhaust manifold looks that way for a reason. Otherwise, wouldn't GM use the LSJ manifold on all the ecotec engines?
 

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Because from what I have been reading - the marginal gains from adding the LSJ header on top of the cat back is not enough for me.

If I am going to put that kind of money - whether it be 130 or more I would sure hope that the gains would be more then what you will see.

When I say that the cat back will be suffice is, no matter what ppl say about the injectors - you most likely will throw codes & until there is tuning available are the marginal gains worth it?
 

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karnivor said:
farfrmnormal said:
It can be expensive - to have it done right anyways. But most people stick with aftermarket headers and have them honed according to the engine specs and what it can handle.

Also, on a side note - when replacing stock parts on your car with other stock parts from a different model car with a different engine its not always recommended. You need to consider back pressure, inlets, outlets, etc. They may look like they will bolt on the same - but you could end up throwing CEL's if not done correctly.

I personally don't recommend using a 2.0L header on a 2.2L - unless you plan on doing internals, catback, downpipe, injector swap & tuning. Without proper tuning and more airflow you will probably max out your injector duty cycle.
:iluvu: i think i just maxed out my injector duty cycle
lmao ur crazy haha!!!
 

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just so i dont have to post a whole new thread!!!

i already have a cat-back exhaust system,how much further can i take my exhaust system for running into back pressure problems???
i have the 2.2

i was thinking about buyin a high flow cat and doin a 2.25 downpipe??to much?


my cat-back system now is 2.25
 
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